LanMan98 2.06 Connection lost (4)
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Dave Higton (1515) 3404 posts |
I’m sorry that this won’t help you in the short term, Dave; but what we need is an SMB3 (or at least SMB2) client. LanMan98 is only SMB1, which has pretty much been abandoned on the grounds of lack of security and its inefficiency. I did a few experiments with SMB2 a couple of weeks ago, but I could only get as far as verifying that my NAS boxes support SMB2. Anything beyond that was way beyond my understanding. |
Dave Symes (425) 156 posts |
Thanks for your thoughts Dave. Checking, I find that LM will still connect to the second HD I have inside this PC (An SSD as the Win boot drive and the second is a spinning rust as the data drive). As a temporary measure I’ve set RO backups on the second drive. The external USB3 backup SSD and the Fast USB3 memory stick (Thumb drive) I normally have for backups are now out of the picture, though I can connect/read/write them in VRPC if I set up a mount within VRPC, but of course backing through the mount is what …… up the backups. D. |
Dave Higton (1515) 3404 posts |
So you can connect to one drive, but not another, within the same PC? That can’t be a firewall issue (it would affect both drives equally). It has to be something to do with permissions. Before I retired, I developed Windows apps. One of the banes of our lives was that Redmond at some point made some paths inaccessible to ordinary apps (it’s where we used to write log files to). It served us right in that they had been telling devs for years where to write these files, but devs had consistently ignored the advice. I wonder if you’re a victim of the same problem? |
Steve Pampling (1551) 7925 posts |
Our server guys would curse you. Probably stick all the data in the same general area. Another app filling C: when there’s Terabytes of storage as D: or whatever
Hmmm, not considered that Dave might be running something trying to access things inside “Program Files (x86)” or “Program Files” or another of the protected directories. 1 logging in as admin and running the process doesn’t count because you being logged in as admin doesn’t mean you want to run things as an administrator does it? “GS mode” |
Dave Symes (425) 156 posts |
I stopped using Program Files for my personal stuff a long time ago… For what its worth, VRPC has been tried with Run as Administrator even outside the restricted Zone… No change. As far as I can remember the directory I created C:\Apps is not OS restricted as is Program Files.
Sorry not the case, I can connect to both the MOBO connected drives. I’ve written out what’s happening in the post that follows this. Dave |
Dave Symes (425) 156 posts |
Mmmnnnn! VRPC is specifically allowed through the firewall. Using LM98 from within RISC OS on this my main machine (Win 10) I can access both MOBO connected drives to Read/Write. Drive C the SSD and drive D the spinning rust NO problem reading/writing anything I’ve set Shared with suitable permissions. What I cannot do is access anything with LM98 that is USB attached like a USB SSD or a Memory stick. I’ve tried it with both the USB-2 and USB-3 interfaces with the same end result. There’s no problem at all natively connecting reading/writing to the USB attached devices from the Win 10 side. Using LM98 from this machine over the LAN all other devices configured can be accessed okay… Beit a NAS, or the Harddrives of the other machines, including the (Also) Win 10 Notebook. The Win 10 Notebook: The Win 10 Notebook has (Literally) a copy of the above VRPC-DL on it as part of the extended backup strategy I use, and interestingly, the backup USB-SSD and the backup memory stick when connected to the Notebook RISC OS via LM98, both connect/read/write okay. The only difference between the two Win 10 computer is OS version. This is a full blown Win 10 Pro 64bit OS while the Notebook is Windows 10 Home 64bit. ? Dave Nb: Other computers in the house are all Win 7 Pro and No LM98 connection problems from either end. Nbx: Imagine here written a seletion of my 50+ years as a ‘Bob the Builder’ swear words. Just for a laugh before posting the above I connected the USB-SSD backup drive to the Notebook where it natively connected okay. Came back to this machine… In RISC OS wrote a new LM disc Config for a connection to the Notebook, the share being the USB SSD connected to it. saved it and tried it. It bloody worked. Absolute evidence that something on this machine is blocking LM from connecting to devices over its USB. But what, what, What? Way, way beyond my knowledge… D. |
Dave Higton (1515) 3404 posts |
Do these shares end up with a space in their names? LM98 can’t cope with that. |
Dave Symes (425) 156 posts |
That was something I was already aware of but thanks for the prompt. Dave |
Dave Higton (1515) 3404 posts |
There was something that bit me a few years back – sadly it’s distant enough that I can’t remember the details, but it was along the lines of: although the directory path had no spaces in it, and the leafname had no spaces in it, the total name that MS generated for the share had an unavoidable space in it. Sorry, I wish I could be more specific. Maybe Steve Pampling can shed a little more light? (Even so, this may still not be what’s doing it for you.) |
Dave Symes (425) 156 posts |
Your thought is both interesting and intriguing… |
Dave Symes (425) 156 posts |
End note I guess… Thanks for the input folks. Dave Nb: I never have and still cannot understand the logic of this No Types business beit in LM or a VRPC disk Mount. D. |
Dave Symes (425) 156 posts |
In conclusion… I’m done with it all! D. |
Dave Higton (1515) 3404 posts |
What I understand of “corruption” is not something you have described before. Corruption to me suggests that the data are in error rather than just missing. What exactly are the symptoms you’re seeing this time? One other thing to think about: if you can back up to a built in drive but not to a pluggable one that you want, you could back up to a built in drive and then move the backup to the pluggable drive. Indirect and more steps, yes, but it would work. |
Dave Symes (425) 156 posts |
I call it corruption because the files when backed to the backup drive arrive in a form that will not work in the apps that use them, and if imported back into the original source will not work. What started out as “Article1” (Filetype Data) and returns as “Article1/dat” will not work in RISC OS Pluto. I’ve spent far, far to much time on it during the past month or so since LM98 and Win 10 fell out, so I’m cutting out the middle man RISC OS and doing it another way. As all my RISC OS usage these days is done via VRPC, I’ve created a couple of .bat files that do the job Win side, no fuss no bother no filetypes FU… Well non that I’ve encountered in my testing. The biggest problem was remembering the DOS syntax… Such a long time ago. ;-) Dave Nb: Thanks to all who made suggestions. |
Dave Symes (425) 156 posts |
Guess worth mentioning, but I forgot. Took the DOS route Win side, no problem. |
Steve Pampling (1551) 7925 posts |
While appreciating that the anecdote that follows doesn’t help it does emphasise the point Dave Higton made earlier about SMB1 vs. SMB2. In our enterprise network we have a number of printers that are also scanners (Ricoh if anyone is interested) and recently a number of this stopped scanning to the network shares set up for that purpose. Checks showed the printer/scanners wouldn’t talk to shares on any server or Win 7 machine either. Efforts were made to produce an unpatched machine and that worked. Enquiries with Ricoh revealed the model in question doesn’t support SMB2 (but a firmware upgrade may be available. Moral? Keep the kit you have up to date on the supported protocols. |
nemo (145) 2437 posts |
Me too. It has to be said that VRPC’s HostFS is extremely unreliable with filetypes. I have a file here that was fine yesterday, but today is apparently called “Graphic,aad/svg/txt”. The only way to fix that is from outside the emulator. Sloppy. |
Steve Pampling (1551) 7925 posts |
I’ve never had a problem with the implementation in RPCEmu. I would have expected the commercial version to be better than the free. |
nemo (145) 2437 posts |
Whereas I would expect the open version to be less broken than the closed. |
Colin Ferris (399) 1747 posts |
Could/would HostFS from RPCemu – be made to work with VRPC? (is it explained anywhere – how this passing thru data from Emulator to background OS works) |
nemo (145) 2437 posts |
Emulator/Host communication can be done in a number of ways. RPCEmu uses SWIs as I recall – certain SWIs are implemented in-emulator, and hence can do anything the host can. VirtualRPC uses emulated hardware addresses instead, which the RO module talks to and the emulator handles specially. Therefore you can’t swap HostFS’s. In VirtualRPC’s case, the filename translation is done on the Windows side, so there’s nothing much the emulated environment can do to fix it. |
Steve Pampling (1551) 7925 posts |
Various parts of me say that is never going to make for stable or reliable. Maybe I’ve worked in IT support for too long. I hadn’t realised there were two different implementations advertising themselves as the same thing. |
Steffen Huber (91) 1945 posts |
HostFS is just a very good name for a host-based FS :-) IIRC, RPCEmu/Arculator HostFS stems from ArcEm HostFS. There was also EmuFS, an extended HostFS for RPCEmu supporting multiple mounts (like VRPC’s variant does). Not sure why that didn’t get integrated into the Spoon edition, I seem to remember some discussion about implementation details and quality of implementation. Long ago. EmuFS can still be looked at at the RPCEmu SVN repo hosted on riscos.info. Hey, I just set up Allegro, Qt and mingw-gcc along with Eclipse CDT on my Windows machine and cloned/checked out all those repos. Maybe we could work out a solution “once and for all” on how to handle RISC OS files on foreign systems. I am not convinced that the comma-filetype-notation is really a good idea. And there is the complexity of replacing the reserved characters on one FS (e.g. Filecore, Fileswitch) with those on the host FS. |
Jeffrey Lee (213) 6046 posts |
I’ve just been caught out by this (Windows 10), but with plain old LanMan rather than LanMan98. Digging around in Windows Event Viewer I found the following (in “Applications and Services” → “Microsoft” → “Windows” → “SMBServer” → “Audit”) from a few days ago (i.e. right when I noticed the problem): SMB1 server service has been automatically uninstalled. Plus some other warnings in the SMBServer Operational logs pointing to the problem (“A client attempted to access the server using SMB1 and was rejected because SMB1 file sharing support is disabled or has been uninstalled.”, with some incomplete and thus somewhat useless guidance on how to enable auditing to allow you to detect which clients are responsible for the connection attempts) This has knocked out connections from both RISC OS and my Linux box (the Linux fix mentioned here of reconfiguring Linux to use SMB3 didn’t seem to work) Reinstalling the SMB 1.0 server and client makes everything work again. Although I did have to do a bit of fiddling – reinstalling the server by itself didn’t work, then when I reinstalled the client Windows decided that that was worthy of a reboot, after which everything started working. So I’m assuming that the other bits of fiddling I did in PowerShell were redundant and it’s actually the combination of client+server, or the reboot, which got things working again. Anyway, the point is that either ROOL’s LanMan doesn’t support anything newer than SMB1, or it’s broken in some way and is failing to connect. And we should probably try to fix it at some point, lest we go back to the old days of having everything configured to be using insecure settings. |
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