They launched Pi Pico without RiscOS?
Phillip (5527) 57 posts |
This post will may expose my inexperience in several areas but, it seems to me that having the Pi Foundation and RiscOS developers working together could potentially be a Win Win relationship. I’m not saying that RiscOS will propel the Pi Pico to stardom, however, having a native OS on a Pi product at launch gives them at least one more bulleted item on the feature list and, it wouldn’t hurt a campaigne for more RiscOS exposure. |
Steffen Huber (91) 1958 posts |
Pi Pico is based on a very resource-restricted Cortex-M0 core. RISC OS will probably never run on it (missing MMU and all that, and basically Thumb-only). Pi Pico is really completely different to all other RPi models, it is an Arduino-like offer. Members of Stardot forum have already discussed the various problems: https://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=21556 The fun will start when people mix up Pi Pico with RISC OS Pico. |
David J. Ruck (33) 1639 posts |
It’s probably got enough resources to run a simple BBC Micro emulator, maybe with the other core acting as second processor. :) |
Jeffrey Lee (213) 6048 posts |
Yeah, there’s been some good progress on getting b-em running on the Pico. https://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=305236#p305236 |
Steve Pampling (1551) 8188 posts |
Yeah, there’s been some good progress on getting b-em running on the Pico. The logical thing therefore would be to put a helpful link somewhere around the ROOL site that points at the work they’ve done. Along with a note that having a full spec Pi gives you the chance to learn how in a more appealing environment… |
Phillip (5527) 57 posts |
The site has some really good beginner information available and I urge those responsible to keep up the good work. I’m aware this new microcontroller is not a computer or an SBC and, that it is far too resource restricted to truly exploit the joy of RiscOS. Although, I have connected a PS2 keyboard and SD card to an Atmel328 and wrote a word processor for it. Just saying. Good news could be just a phone call away. |
Andrew Rawnsley (492) 1445 posts |
Given that one (or more?) of the ROOL directors have been very closely involved with Pi Foundation (and the Uptons) over the years, I think it is safe to say that the problem isn’t a lack of knowledge/awareness on the Foundation’s part, nor a lack of communication from ROOL. At this point, it is fairly safe to assume that RISC OS is something that is tolerated rather than encouraged – their focus is 110% on what they now call Raspberry Pi OS (that name/brand is important/significant). Put simply, no other OS (in some ways, not even Windows – think politics!) offers the Foundation the same opportunities in terms of market penetration. RISC OS’ software-base isn’t large enough to compete, and their investment in Pi OS is so large at this point that I think supporting anything else really isn’t on the cards. Additionally, Ebon has stated publicly that future Pi platforms may abandon ARM altogether, which requires a much more architecture-agnostic OS than RISC OS, unfortunately. Nevertheless, it is no reason to stop trying. I believe ROOL did manage to get the latest Pi400-supporting OS build to appear in the list for the Pi disc imager, which is a significant achievement in and of itself :) |
Phillip (5527) 57 posts |
Thank you, it is indeed fortuitous that my inquiry prompted an eloquent, informative and enlightening response. I have run Pi OS but only briefly. When comapred with ‘some’ linux distributions, I found it to be lacking. Perhaps I was a tad hasty to judge it unworthy of a more thorough perusal. I can fix that.
With the CPU world seemingly embracing ARM and CISC seeing a withering future in the comsumer PC market, what, pray tell, could be its successor? I did preface this post with a prediction that I would expose my inexperience. I realize now that I have revealed my lack of exposure to the Pi Foundation and RiscOS.
It’s awfully tough to get me to quit something I believe in! |
Rick Murray (539) 13872 posts |
RISC-V (aka ARM’s biggest cockup). The story is that UC Berkeley wanted some access to ARM’s processor designs in order to help teach the students about how processors are designed with a modern real world example. ARM refused (because of their licencing model, I would imagine). The boffins at UCB didn’t take this lying down, their response was to come up with RISC-V. And, well, that may well be the competition for ARM, and clearly it had them rattled given https://www.extremetech.com/computing/273236-arm-kills-its-risc-v-fud-website-after-staff-revolt (article from 2018, but still). |
Andrew Rawnsley (492) 1445 posts |
As Rick says, RISC-V doesn’t have any licence/fees associated with it, and has already been used commercially in many embedded designs that would seem like ideal ARM candidates (and have been, historically). For example, new HDD / SSD controllers from the big players are RISC-V based, and there are router and other consumer electronics designs that are RISC-V also. Indeed, I think Ebon mentioned RISC-V in the interview I referenced. At the moment, RISC-V remains in the same place ARM was about 10-15 years ago – lacking high performance, high clock designs. However, there is considerable interest in breaking the ARM monopoly, especially from the likes of China etc. Whilst I don’t think ARM is truly in danger (at least, not in the immediate future, Nvidia meddling excepted), it is not hard to imagine a world where mass-produced royalty-free RISC-V designs are commonplace. And for a device like a Pi, every saving is helpful. Indeed, when I first read of the Pi Pico, I noted that it represented the Foundation’s first attempt at producing their own silicon. Make of that what you will! To end on a good note, though, Raspberry is not the only fruit, and there are plenty more ARM-based designs and products out there, so I think a diverse RISC OS will be a healthy one. |
Phillip (5527) 57 posts |
Enjoyed the article. Though I am a proponent of ‘Open Source’, it is still a strange and mostly misunderstood business model to me. It doesn’t fit 100% here or there but, it certainly works.
Looking forward into technology, I’m very often seeing elements that have come from the past. It’s more than a mere ponderance when I remind futurists that ‘the past has its place in the future’. This is true of both hardware and software. While I have opinions, that I loosely hang on to, if they had real value I wouldn’t be the follower or the poorman that I am. |
David Gee (1833) 268 posts |
I think we also need to remember that, while Eben Upton had a BBC Micro, he didn’t have a RISC OS machine, having moved to an Amiga 600. |